Pre-Wrath vs. Post-Tribulation Rapture? (also a response to the popular Pre-Trib position)
What this blog post explores is the timing of the Rapture, primarily the difference between a position called Pre-Wrath Rapture and the historic Post-Tribulation Rapture position. In recent years, the Pre-Wrath position has gained popularity, and I have listed below some of the scholars who advocate for it.
One early Christian writer named Victorinus (c. AD230-AD304) wrote a commentary on the book of Revelation in the late 3rd century entitled A Commentary on the Apocalypse of the Blessed John.
What follows are quotes from Victorinus' work, as his work has been cited by both Pre-Tribulation and Pre-Wrath advocates in defense of their positions. I argue that, like the rest of the early Church, his work, when taken in its entirety and in context, held to a Post-Tribulation view.
“…or to those that are at ease in the Church; or to those who are negligent, and Christians only in name; or to those who are meekly instructed, that they may bravely persevere in faith; or to those who study the Scriptures, and labour to know the mysteries of their announcement, and are unwilling to do God’s work that is mercy and love: to all he urges penitence, to all he declares judgment.” (Chpt. 1:16)
“I know thy tribulation and thy poverty, but thou art rich.”] For He knows that with such men there are riches hidden with Him, and that they deny the blasphemy of the Jews, who say that they are Jews and are not; but they are the synagogue of Satan, since they are gathered together by Antichrist; and to them He says: “Be thou faithful unto death.”] That they should continue to be faithful even unto death.” (Chpt. 2:9-10)
“But that which ye have, hold fast until I come; and he that overcometh, to him will I give power over all peoples.”] That is, him I will appoint as judge among the rest of the saints.” (Chpt. 2:25-26)
1“And I will keep thee from the hour of temptation.”] That they may know His glory to be of this kind, that they are not indeed permitted to be given over to temptation.” (Chpt. 3:10)
“I persuade thee to buy of Me gold tried in the fire.”] That is, that in whatever manner you can, you should suffer for the Lord’s name tribulations and passions.” (Chpt. 3:18)
“…The other three horses very plainly signify the wars, famines, and pestilences announced by our Lord in the Gospel. And thus he says that one of the four living creatures said (because all four are one), “Come and see.” “Come” is said to him who is invited to faith; “see” is said to him who saw not. Therefore, the white horse is the word of preaching with the Holy Spirit sent into the world. For the Lord says, “This Gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world for a testimony to all nations, and then shall come the end. And when He had opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red, and to him that sat upon him was given a great sword.”] The red horse, and he that sat upon him, having a sword, signify the coming wars, as we read in the Gospel: “For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be great earthquakes in divers places.” This is the ruddy horse. And when He had opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying, Come and see. And, lo, a black horse; and he who sat upon it had a balance in his hand.”] The black horse signifies famine, for the Lord says, “There shall be famines in divers places;” but the word is specially extended to the times of Antichrist, when there shall be a great famine, and when all shall be injured. He then says: Moreover, the balance in the hand is the examining scales, wherein He might show forth the merits of every individual. He then says: “And when He had opened the fourth seal, I heard the fourth living creature saying, Come and see. And, lo, a pale horse; and he who sat upon him was named Death.”] For the pale horse and he who sat upon him bore the name of Death. These same things also the Lord had promised among the rest of the coming destructions—great pestilences and deaths; since, moreover, he says: (Chpt. 6:2-8)
“And I saw, when he had opened the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake.”] In the sixth seal, then, was a great earthquake: this is that very last persecution. “And the sun became black as sackcloth of hair.”] The sun becomes as sackcloth; that is, the brightness of doctrine will be obscured by unbelievers. “And the entire moon became as blood.”] By the moon of blood is set forth the Church of the saints as pouring out her blood for Christ. “And the stars fell to the earth.”] The falling of the stars are the faithful who are troubled for Christ’s sake. “Even as a fig-tree casteth her untimely figs.”] The fig-tree, when shaken, loses its untimely figs—when men are separated from the Church by persecution. 14. “And the heaven withdrew as a scroll that is rolled up.”] For the heaven to be rolled away, that is, that the Church shall be taken away. “And every mountain and the islands were moved from their places.”] Mountains and islands removed from their places intimate that in the last persecution all men departed from their places; that is, that the good will be removed,
seeking to avoid the persecution. (Chpt. 6:12-14)
Note: Interestingly, the previous passage by Victorinus has been cited as teaching a Pre-Tribulation Rapture by taking a single phrase out of its context. When one looks at ALL of his writing, there is no possible way to come to this conclusion.
“And he shall make fire come down from heaven in the sight of men.”] Yes (as I also have said), in the sight of men. Magicians do these things, by the aid of the apostate angels, even to this day. He shall cause also that a golden image of Antichrist shall be placed in the temple at Jerusalem, and that the apostate angel should enter, and thence utter voices and oracles. Moreover, he himself shall contrive that his servants and children should receive as a mark on their foreheads, or on their right hands, the number of his name, lest anyone should buy or sell them. Daniel had previously predicted his contempt and provocation of God. “And he shall place,” says he, “his temple within Samaria, upon the illustrious and holy mountain that is at Jerusalem, an image such as Nebuchadnezzar had made.” Thence here he places, and by and by here he renews, that of which the Lord, admonishing His churches concerning the last times and their dangers, says: “But when ye shall see the contempt which is spoken of by Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place, let him who readeth understand.” It is called a contempt when God is provoked, because idols are worshipped instead of God, or when the dogma of heretics is introduced in the churches. But it is a turning away because steadfast men, seduced by false signs and portents, are turned away from their salvation. (Chpt. 13:13)
“And I saw another great and wonderful sign, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is completed the indignation of God.”] For the Wrath of God always strikes the obstinate people with seven plagues, that is, perfectly, as it is said in Leviticus; and these shall be in the last time, when the Church shall have gone out of the midst. (Chpt. 15:1)
Note: This previous quote has been used to support the Pre-Wrath Rapture position. Victorinus, commenting on Revelation 15:1, says the “Church shall have gone out of the midst” – where do they go? It doesn’t say they are raptured up. Protected, sheltered from the manifestations of God’s Wrath being poured out? Absolutely. Raptured up? To meet Jesus in the air? Not taught at all in this quotation.
Pre-Wrath Proponents
1. Robert Van Kampen – Developed the position in the 1970’s.
1992 – The Sign
1997 – The Rapture Question Answered: Plain and Simple
2. Marvin Rosenthal – persuaded by Van Kampen in the late 1980s.
1990 - The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church – A New Understanding of the Rapture, the Tribulation and the Second Coming
3. Roland Rasmussen
4. Robert Franklin - Rediscovered Early Church PreMillennialism: Teachings of the Earliest Church Fathers on Prophecy
5. Alan E. Kurschner, Eschatos Ministries
6. Alan Hultberg, Talbot Theological Seminary
Post-Trib Proponents
1. The Ante-Nicene Church (AD100-AD325)
2. George Eldon Ladd – 1956 - The Blessed Hope: A Biblical Study of the Second Advent and the Rapture
3. Robert H. Gundry – 1973 – The Church and the Tribulation
4. Douglas Moo
Note: What follows comes from an online review of Three Views on the Rapture: Pretribulation, Prewrath, or Posttribulation. I've included this because it is Douglas Moo who is arguing a position that is closest to the early Christian position that the Rapture of the church occurs at the time of Jesus' Return at the 2nd Coming.
"Moo points out that Isaiah 26:20-21 could refer to divine protection from the end-times Wrath while remaining here on the earth.
He seeks to show that Revelation pictures God exempting believers from His Wrath, Revelation 9:4, 20-21; 16:2, 9, 11.
John 14:3, I Corinthians 15:51-52, and I Thessalonians 4:13-18 are often used to describe the Rapture. Moo examines each one and finds no reason to believe that Christians will be taken to heaven. In John 14:3, he notes that the promise is not to go to heaven, but to be with the LORD when He returns. I Corinthians 15:51-52 contains the idea that through resurrection the saints will inherit the Kingdom of God. Since Isaiah 25:8 is quoted, the Old Testament saints will participate in the resurrection that will occur at this time. The last trumpet here occurs when the nation of Israel experiences their end-times salvation (he cross-references Matthew 24:31). Again, there is no specific teaching that the church will be raptured into heaven. The final passage is handled in classic Post-Trib style. In I Thessalonians 4:13-18, the passage is shown to picture believers rising to “meet” the LORD in the air in order to accompany Him back to earth as a sort of delegation. The word apantesis (translated meet) is also used in Matthew 25:6 and Acts 28:15 where it means just that. Again, there is no evidence that believers will go to heaven.
Throughout this presentation, Moo reminds his readers that the coming of Christ is always a Post-Tribulational event. He notes similarities between I Thessalonians 4:13-18 and Daniel 12:1-2, which both show a resurrection from sleep, noting again that Daniel 12:1-2 is Post-Tribulational.
Moo transitions into examining I Thessalonians 5:1-11 which acts as a springboard for a discussion regarding the term “the Day of the LORD” which Moo relates to the end after the final Tribulation. Moo makes his case by showing that in Revelation 6:17 and 16:14 what is meant is an event associated with the parousia, which is always Post-Tribulational. Also, Malachi 4:5 and Joel 2:31 (I’m correcting what I’m sure is a typo in the book) describe tribulational events before the Day of the LORD. So the Day of the LORD is not an any-moment, signless event if it occurs in this sequence. Jesus taught that the saints would be raised on the last day, which would point toward the Day of the LORD rather than before the Tribulation which precedes it. He also argues that the Day of the LORD in I Thessalonians 5 would overtake believers, just not in the same way it overtakes unbelievers, like a thief. The commands for believers to watch, or be in a state of watchfulness (in the Olivet Discourse as well), further drives home the point that what is being taught in the scriptures is a Post-Tribulational parousia.
According to Moo, II Thessalonians presents many exegetical difficulties. So while attempting to interact with anticipated objections of his view, covering everything is simply not possible. He presents his view that in chapter 1 believers receive their promised rest at the glorious appearing of Christ after the Tribulation. Chapter 2 shows that Paul had to explain to the believers that the Day of the LORD parousia would not come until after certain tribulational events had been fulfilled, such as the appearance of the Eschatological Antichrist described in terms reminiscent of the antigodly king spoken of by Daniel. Chapters 1 and 2 together show a united picture that the church will not be raptured until after the reign of the Antichrist.
Moo has a lengthy section on the Olivet Discourse, lengthy by means of comparison to the other two presentations. Here he wrestles with the ideas of things historical (ongoing throughout the church age), things Preterist (fulfilled in 70AD), and things future (during the final Tribulation, the Day of the LORD, and the second coming of Christ). These positions of Historicist, Preterist, and Futurist are played off the others, showing that each has some valid points to bring to the conversation. Moo brings in more from a Historicist point of view than most would. But as one is reading this presentation, they begin asking, what does this have to do with the Rapture? The idea that Moo is trying to get to the root of is – exactly who does the Olivet Discourse apply to, Israel or the church, or some combination of the two? With Preterism versus Futurism, it is not either/or, but both/and. Events were fulfilled in 70AD and they will be fulfilled in the future. Adding on to this, events were fulfilled for the nation of Israel in 70AD (with the destruction of the Jewish temple), and there will be events fulfilled for the church in the future at the consummation of the age. This section is difficult to sum up since Moo is bringing in very abstract concepts. It is, however, worth studying what he has to say since conversations like this simply do not happen frequently. Ultimately, he concludes that the gathering of Matthew 24:31 includes the Rapture and probably much more.
After all this, Moo is finally ready to move to Revelation. Since this post is pretty long already, I’ll just cut to the chase. The letters to the seven churches warn of possible persecution and death for believers. Revelation 3:10 is akin to John 17:15 which promises spiritual protection from the hour of trial, not by being removed from the earth. He presents the idea that Revelation 11:11-12 could refer to the Rapture, which would be at the end of the final Tribulation, especially since the seventh trumpet depicts the end of the age. (He believes the sixth seal also pictures the end of the age, as in, both the seventh trumpet and sixth seal describe the last day as parallel passages, if I’m understanding him correctly.) Revelation 14:14-16 may describe the Rapture, then again, maybe not. Revelation 20:4 is where he presents a firmer case. He examines the usage of terminology throughout the book of Revelation showing that the first resurrection described here must include the church, the saints from all ages, and the Tribulation martyrs. Therefore the first resurrection and the Rapture occur as a Post-Tribulational event.
Moo makes some concluding remarks which include some comments about the term imminency. Instead of the idea of “any moment”, he shows the scriptures to mean “watch for” and “eagerly wait for”. All in all, even if he is not dogmatic which results in ambiguity at times, this is a good presentation of the Post-Trib position. I have devoted a little more space to this presentation than Pre-Trib or Pre-Wrath, probably because there are more foundational issues to wrestle with in his essay. Also, I have not discussed the Post-Trib position at length on my blog, while I have discussed Pre-Trib and Pre-Wrath extensively, although it’s been a little while. These posts are not meant to take the place of the book, but to summarize it and encourage you to purchase it. The responses to the Post-Trib position will be forthcoming in a separate post.
Douglas Moo’s Response to Pre-Wrath
Douglas Moo writes his adversative (his word) from the Post-Trib point of view. He admits up front that Hultberg knows more about the book of Revelation than he does. But he still attempts to show why classic Post-Trib is the more preferable view. He begins asserting that Daniel’s 70th week is not necessarily a seven-year period at the end of the age. This is problematic because Hultberg did not spend any time whatsoever developing this in his case. Hultberg just dove into the issue of the timing of the Rapture without building this foundation. This plays into Moo’s thesis that believers are not necessarily rescued by the Rapture at the onset of the Day of the LORD. Examining language in I Thessalonians 4-5 he shows that instead believers will not be overtaken by surprise since becoming Christians has allowed them to enter into the eschatological day, the last days in which we are living.
Moo focuses the rest of his time in the book of Revelation, which is understandable because that is where the majority of the disagreement comes from between Hultberg’s presentation of Pre-Wrath and Classic Post-Trib. For starters, Moo suggests that the 144,000 of Revelation 7:1-8 and the great multitude of Revelation 7:9-17 both represent the church. This skews the timing issue that Hultberg has presented as a sixth seal Rapture. Moo also mentions two other possible references to the Rapture, which are Revelation 11:11-12 and 20:4, which he presents in his primary essay. Since Hultberg relies so heavily on chronological sequence, Revelation 20:4 gives him contextual problems since this is termed the first resurrection. Hultberg has interacted with this briefly in his primary essay, but does not answer definitively what is meant by this first resurrection. Hultberg has suggested it is either chronologically-displaced or refers only to the resurrection of martyrs. Moo exploits the admission of a chronological displacement since undermining the chronology of Pre-Wrath would be a point in favor of Post-Trib, and he also points out the weakness of a martyrs-only resurrection after the return of Christ.
Moo then revisits Hultberg’s chronological claims in Revelation 6-8 and 14-16. Moo has no problem seeing the Rapture in the passages that Hultberg cites. In Moo’s opinion, these passages simply were not meant to teach a chronological progression. He states that the sequence in which John sees these things is not necessarily the sequence in which they occur on earth. He admits that there may be a parallel between the two passages, but states that we cannot be certain concerning the nature of timing. He notes that while the bowls are described as God’s Wrath, the trumpets are never described in such terms. This undermines the idea of the Pre-Wrath Rapture as Hultberg has presented it in the sequence of Revelation 6-8 (at the sixth seal) and Revelation 14-16 (at the parousia harvest of the Son of Man).
Pre-Wrath Response to Douglas Moo
Hultberg has more in common with Moo in that they both believe the church will enter the final Tribulation (Moo’s term) or the Great Tribulation (more common term). The majority of his response is based in the book of Revelation. He examines the passages that Moo has portrayed as arguing for a Post-Tribulational Rapture, meaning at the very end of the 3 1/2 year period.
First, he goes to Revelation 11:11-12, which Moo has suggested could represent the Rapture. This is a difficult comparison because while Hultberg sees a chronology in the book of Revelation, Moo doesn’t necessarily believe anything is chronological. Surprisingly, Hultberg agrees that this passage could imply the Rapture, but the timing is where the difference lies. Moo has suggested that the 1260 days of the two witnesses occur during the first half of the final Tribulation, while the 3 1/2 days occur during the second half, actually being equated with the second half. It seems that while Hultberg agrees that the two witnesses prophesy during the first 3 1/2 years, he believes they are killed sometime during the final 3 1/2 years. The 3 1/2 days being equated with 3 1/2 years is weak evidence according to Hultberg. He points out the chronology of Revelation 6-7 undermines the earthquake of the seventh trumpet being the same earthquake of the sixth seal. At the fifth seal, God’s Wrath is prayed for but delayed. At the sixth seal, God’s Wrath is portended. Only after the sealing of the 144,000 and the (Pre-Wrath) Rapture of the church is the Wrath of God brought to earth, being mixed with the prayers of the saints. When the seventh trumpet is blown, this signifies that God’s Wrath is complete. This shows that the earthquake which occurs just before the seventh trumpet is not in the same time frame as the sixth seal.
While Moo was not dogmatic about Revelation 14:14-16 describing the Rapture, Hultberg takes this as an opportunity to reassert what he has presented in his primary essay, this time stacking it up against Moo’s views. He points out Moo’s description of the scene as a parousia scene, including the Son of Man coming on a cloud. Building on this, he paints a different picture of the chronology surrounding the passage than Moo’s non-commitment to any chronological structure. He sees Revelation 12-16 as a subunit whereby John prophesies again after eating the contents of the little scroll. The Danielic persecution of God’s people is described with the background beginning with Satanic opposition in the garden of Eden in chapters 12-13. God’s intervention on behalf of His people is described in chapters 14-16. The three angels announce the impending judgment, Revelation 14:6-12, the Son of Man harvests the earth at the parousia, Revelation 14:14-16, finally, the judgment comes when the angel reaps the vintage, Revelation 14:17-20. In chapters 15-16, this is expanded as we see those who are victorious over the beast standing before God in heaven, then the bowls are poured out as the final Wrath of God. Hultberg notes in favor of an extended period of time for the Day of the LORD's Wrath the fact that during specific plagues in the trumpets and bowls that time is given for humanity to repent, Revelation 9:20, 16:9, 11. This runs contrary to Moo, who has asserted that the Day of the LORD is a singular event, although he never commits to a one-day limitation.
Hultberg takes the time to address one more point which he felt was substantial evidence in favor of a Post-Trib view. Moo has asserted that Revelation 20:4, when describing the first resurrection, must include the church and Old Testament saints as well. He has brought in I Corinthians 15, which quotes Isaiah 25:8. This is good evidence of a Post-Trib Rapture because all OT passages place the resurrection of the righteous as the Kingdom of God is being established here on earth, or completely after the final Tribulation. Hultberg responds to this in two ways. First, he suggests that the mention of the trumpet in the corresponding passages may correspond with the regathering of Israel, but then again, it may correspond with an attack on Israel as God comes to their defense. The second way he responds is to point out the ambiguity of these OT passages, stating that the temporal relationship of events is not always clear. He suggests that perhaps these OT resurrection passages are Post-Millennial."
Note: the person who did the online review personally holds to the Pre-Wrath position.
Final Thoughts
While I personally believe and teach the Post-Tribulation Rapture position of the early Church, I am convinced that, in essence, the Pre-Wrath and Post-Trib views are so close to one another that they end up having a genuine distinction without any practical difference. I tried to make this point to a Pre-Wrath advocate who was obnoxious in her adamancy of the rightness of her position.
I've heard one Pre-Wrath advocate argue that his position has the Rapture occurring 150 days (5 months) before the 2nd Coming of Christ. This means that the Church will be around for a little over 6 1/2 years of the 7-year Great Tribulation. Both positions therefore have the Church needing to be prepared to stand throughout this time of incredible pressure and persecution. The Pre-Tribulation viewpoint, while attractive (who "wants" to suffer?), doesn't prepare the Church for trouble. I am convinced that this will ultimately lead to many Christians being stumbled and falling away because they were taught they'd be off the earth during the Great Tribulation.
What do I do with the Wrath of God being poured out at the end of the Great Tribulation? Aren't we as Christians "not appointed to wrath?" (1 Thes. 5:9). I simply believe that we will be protected/sheltered from the Wrath of God when it is poured out at that time. That is also the position of Douglas Moo. Both the Pre-Wrath and Post-Tribulation positions agree that God will NOT be pouring out His Wrath on faithful Christians who have endured the Tribulation (be that the 6 1/2 years or the full 7 years of it).
As for my Pre-Tribulation Rapture friends, I would love them to be right. I would prefer that we wouldn't have to be around for any part of a final Tribulation before the 2nd Coming of Christ. I tell them that I hope their position ends up being true. I am ready if so, and I am not going to object as I am being caught up; I'd rather be "left behind". I'll be high-fiving my Pre-Trib friends, celebrating as we are airlifted off the earth.
But if the early Christians were/are right, and we will remain on the earth during the Tribulation, to face the Antichrist and his demonic forces, then the Pre-Trib Christians should PREPARE that they might be wrong. They should prepare to be able to run a marathon. If in the end we only have to run a 5K (3.1 miles) instead of the 26.2 miles of a full marathon, then nothing is lost. But if you are only prepared for a 5K (i.e., PreTrib) and a marathon (Pre-Wrath/Post-Trib) is required, you will be in serious trouble.
I know that many of my Pre-Trib friends "think" they'll be okay and that they would easily adjust to the situation. I don't think agree. This type of dynamic happens all the time. People come to Christ, and they aren't given an accurate picture of what following Jesus will require or be like. They think somehow a problem-free, pain-free life lies ahead. When that doesn't happen, many have a crisis of faith. I've known quite a few who have actually walked away from the Lord because they ultimately became so offended with God (and/or disappointed by His People!).
So theology does have consequences. And if one is a betting person, it would be the best bet to PREPARE to go through the Tribulation. This is the better part of wisdom! In other words, expect the worst (a Pre-Wrath/Post-Trib Rapture) and prepare accordingly. Go ahead and hope for the best (a Pre-Trib Rapture) if you are around at this time in history.
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